Yep, you have clearly summarized Israel's predicament. The right has no answer to the demographic realities (except for the transfer or southafrican-like dreams of the most extremist factions), the left has no answer to the Palestinian rejectionism and terrorism which collapsed the "peace process". Possibly most Israelis would be happy returning Gaza to Egypt and most of the West Bank to Jordan, but why would those countries take on that headache?
Curious about footnote #7. Would Palestinian Arabs realistically ever opt to convert to Judaism in large numbers? This sounds completely implausible to me, but maybe I’m lacking some context on this
I once asked a Palestinian Arab about this. He estimated that, if there were a more open pathway to conversion, several thousand Palestinians would be interested, with the number growing over time. It's obviously impossible to know what the exact count would be, but even with the Israeli rabbinate's stringent stance on conversion (and Islam's harsh attitude toward apostasy), there have been some notable cases. For example, Baruch Mizrahi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Mizrahi) was a Palestinian Muslim who converted to Judaism and died for Israel in its War of Independence.
It seems to me that there already was a two-state solution (Israel and Jordan), and the modern-day Palestinians are descended from Arabs who a) refused Israeli governance and b) were rejected/betrayed by the Arab nations. Am I understanding this wrong? It seems like this really matters to the current situation, but I hear practically nothing about it. Am I missing something?
It's too simplistic to say that modern-day Palestinians descend from Arabs who refused Israeli governance. During Israel's War of Independence, many fled (often expecting to return in triumph once the Jews were vanquished), a smaller number were expelled (though Arabs also expelled Jews during this period), and still others never went anywhere, becoming Israeli citizens or, if they lived in the West Bank or Gaza, citizens of Jordan or subjects of Egypt. Jordan, unlike other Arab countries, did not "reject" the Palestinians, but instead granted them citizenship, which brings us to the next point.
Yep, you have clearly summarized Israel's predicament. The right has no answer to the demographic realities (except for the transfer or southafrican-like dreams of the most extremist factions), the left has no answer to the Palestinian rejectionism and terrorism which collapsed the "peace process". Possibly most Israelis would be happy returning Gaza to Egypt and most of the West Bank to Jordan, but why would those countries take on that headache?
I am one of the few people very interested in Jewish and Palestinian genetics. When I realized that Greater Syria/Israel is and remains largely one ethnicity I became an ardent believer in greater Israel. Really the elevation put my jaw on the floor. It is insane.
I'm interested in that topic as well. However, ancestral ties aren't enough to support political unity. The Slavs of the former Yugoslavia are also essentially one ethnicity, but they're still divided by religion and historical enmity. That being said, the fact that Jews and Palestinians are largely cousins can help provide a basis for mutual legitimacy. For example, rather than insanely denying the existence of the Jewish Temple, future Palestinians may eventually take pride in the fact that their ancestors helped build it. After all, King Herod, who expanded the Temple into a wonder of the ancient world (and is responsible for the Western Wall), was a half-Arab Jewish king.
Yep, you have clearly summarized Israel's predicament. The right has no answer to the demographic realities (except for the transfer or southafrican-like dreams of the most extremist factions), the left has no answer to the Palestinian rejectionism and terrorism which collapsed the "peace process". Possibly most Israelis would be happy returning Gaza to Egypt and most of the West Bank to Jordan, but why would those countries take on that headache?
Curious about footnote #7. Would Palestinian Arabs realistically ever opt to convert to Judaism in large numbers? This sounds completely implausible to me, but maybe I’m lacking some context on this
I once asked a Palestinian Arab about this. He estimated that, if there were a more open pathway to conversion, several thousand Palestinians would be interested, with the number growing over time. It's obviously impossible to know what the exact count would be, but even with the Israeli rabbinate's stringent stance on conversion (and Islam's harsh attitude toward apostasy), there have been some notable cases. For example, Baruch Mizrahi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Mizrahi) was a Palestinian Muslim who converted to Judaism and died for Israel in its War of Independence.
It seems to me that there already was a two-state solution (Israel and Jordan), and the modern-day Palestinians are descended from Arabs who a) refused Israeli governance and b) were rejected/betrayed by the Arab nations. Am I understanding this wrong? It seems like this really matters to the current situation, but I hear practically nothing about it. Am I missing something?
It's too simplistic to say that modern-day Palestinians descend from Arabs who refused Israeli governance. During Israel's War of Independence, many fled (often expecting to return in triumph once the Jews were vanquished), a smaller number were expelled (though Arabs also expelled Jews during this period), and still others never went anywhere, becoming Israeli citizens or, if they lived in the West Bank or Gaza, citizens of Jordan or subjects of Egypt. Jordan, unlike other Arab countries, did not "reject" the Palestinians, but instead granted them citizenship, which brings us to the next point.
At least half of Jordanians are of Palestinian descent, so in a sense, there already was a two-state solution. However, there's still the question of the over 5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza (as well as Palestinians elsewhere in the Arab world who clamor for "return"). Accordingly, I've come to believe that the most logical "two-state solution" is for Jordan to annex the West Bank again (I'd also throw in Gaza) and officially become the Palestinian state. See https://1000yearview.substack.com/p/the-palestinians-need-a-king and https://ideas.tikvah.org/mosaic/essays/there-won-t-be-a-palestinian-state-in-the-west-bank-it-s-time-to-reconsider-the-j for more on this idea.
Yep, you have clearly summarized Israel's predicament. The right has no answer to the demographic realities (except for the transfer or southafrican-like dreams of the most extremist factions), the left has no answer to the Palestinian rejectionism and terrorism which collapsed the "peace process". Possibly most Israelis would be happy returning Gaza to Egypt and most of the West Bank to Jordan, but why would those countries take on that headache?
I am one of the few people very interested in Jewish and Palestinian genetics. When I realized that Greater Syria/Israel is and remains largely one ethnicity I became an ardent believer in greater Israel. Really the elevation put my jaw on the floor. It is insane.
I'm interested in that topic as well. However, ancestral ties aren't enough to support political unity. The Slavs of the former Yugoslavia are also essentially one ethnicity, but they're still divided by religion and historical enmity. That being said, the fact that Jews and Palestinians are largely cousins can help provide a basis for mutual legitimacy. For example, rather than insanely denying the existence of the Jewish Temple, future Palestinians may eventually take pride in the fact that their ancestors helped build it. After all, King Herod, who expanded the Temple into a wonder of the ancient world (and is responsible for the Western Wall), was a half-Arab Jewish king.
That's more or less the basis for "Canaanism": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanism