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Slymonides's avatar

Seems like the “ideal nationalist states” are the economic and geopolitical power brokers and success or luck stories which can manage to silo themselves from the impact of the common crises in the world, or at least some of them. Geographic landforms have as much of a role here as anything else—both in strategic locational proximity and size. New Zealand, Japan, Norway, Switzerland, Ireland (kinda, bad example in some ways), are all places which do not need to stress over their borders—they are self evident. They also have natural domestic abundance which is a reliable foundation for creating wealth. Unsurprisingly the elite wealthy of the world, the post-nationalists all end up spending time in such places trying to become citizens or get tax breaks and own property.

Coincidentally these societies will have what we’d consider healthy nationalist views, but it’s because they have enough distance to exist as a society in their own bubble without most of the population realizing this is the case. It’s like when you meet New Yorkers or Londoners or Tokyoites who simply don’t pay attention to anything going on outside their cities and are condescending to people outside their bubbles often even without realizing it.

States like Israel or Estonia or Taiwan have prominent nationalism because it’s the only way to not be genocided by their large, violent, insecure, despotic neighboring states and entities. You didn’t mention the Korean peninsula, but it feels like the most pertinent of all places for this discussion, and for seeing what nationalism means in this century.

I don’t think societies and countries that are at the center of land masses and modern diverse continental populations can really do “healthy nationalism”. Even if people can find common national values, it’s just too wide an umbrella in such places to feel like an identity that is stable. Nationalism at this scale naturally becomes a military salute—which is why the anti-nationalism people think nationalism is equivalent to fascism or inevitably creates it. They are wrong of course, but they unknowingly represent the real problem, which is that such states cannot rely on such things for self esteem or identity or morale of its society.

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Arie's avatar

Fukuyama (and Bush et al) certainly "bought the rip" when it comes to the success of liberalism, yet still we must remember how great the current status of liberalism is compared to what anyone thought possible before the cold war ended. Not only is most of Eastern Europe still under democratic governance, Latin America large democratized right at the same time. As did several Asian nations,

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